{"comments":{"938446":{"pb_id":"43805","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"938446","comment_id":"938446","member_id":"43805","comment":"The reason to.not use BC as a data point is that kai and tanner were talking most of the race. They took off the last little bit.","date_added":"Dec 23rd 2013, 6:13pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":199066,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"RunSpokane","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43805","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/RunSpokane.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1073997"},"938416":{"pb_id":"44418","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"938416","comment_id":"938416","member_id":"44418","comment":"

<\/a>watchout, on , said:<\/p>

\nThis.
\n
\nI agree that Kai's the more impressive XC runner this year, particularly when comparing the national meets. However, I can certainly understand the rationale for having Fisher at #1 - it's not his fault that he didn't face much competition before the Foot Locker meets.
\n
\nBoth seem deserving of #1 to me, but only one can get the honor... Fisher is the more PC choice, as he was never beat.
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\n
\nThere has to be a little more than one race to justify a season ranking. In the case of the Washington guys, I believe the state meet matters, NXN\/FL regionals matters and BorderClash matters. Anyone who might have an expectation of finishing No. 1 has to demonstrate some level of dominance. And don't get me wrong, because I like Wilmot a lot and he had a really good day at NXN. But he was 33 seconds behind his teammate at the state meet and didn't win either of NXN NW or BC. (And if you want to argue that state\/regional\/all-star meets don't matter at all, then it undermines the entire list). You may have an argument that his NXN is better than Fisher's FL -- although I'm not convinced of that. Keep in mind John Dressel was 6-1 against Wilmot this season.","date_added":"Dec 23rd 2013, 5:30pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"1082747","email_settings":"4294967295","email":"dbind4@aol.com","address":"DougB","gender":"u","member_id":"44418","member_name":"DougB","avatar_location":"av-44418.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":199066,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg","pb_title":"DougB","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=44418","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/DougB.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1082747"},"938399":{"pb_id":"43715","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"938399","comment_id":"938399","member_id":"43715","comment":"Meylan posted a good article today on how he would see a hypothetical race of the top athletes in the nation:
\n
\nhttp:\/\/tullyrunners....tSeason2013.htm<\/a>
\n
\n(he used only athletes at the national meets, but their races at that meet wasn't his only criteria in evaluating their odds)","date_added":"Dec 23rd 2013, 1:26pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":199066,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-43715.jpg","pb_title":"watchout","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_wally_id":"1073498"},"938345":{"pb_id":"43715","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"938345","comment_id":"938345","member_id":"43715","comment":"

<\/a>RunSpokane, on , said:<\/p>

\nIt's harder to stay undefeated when there are 3 top 6 runners in your league :)
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\n
\nThis.
\n
\nI agree that Kai's the more impressive XC runner this year, particularly when comparing the national meets. However, I can certainly understand the rationale for having Fisher at #1 - it's not his fault that he didn't face much competition before the Foot Locker meets.
\n
\nBoth seem deserving of #1 to me, but only one can get the honor... Fisher is the more PC choice, as he was never beat.","date_added":"Dec 22nd 2013, 11:07pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":199066,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-43715.jpg","pb_title":"watchout","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_wally_id":"1073498"},"938263":{"pb_id":"10661","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"938263","comment_id":"938263","member_id":"10661","comment":"Jacob Pickle was 11th at Foot Locker South yet is ahead of 9 guys who beat him? This really gives no love to those that qualified for Foot Locker. Poor.","date_added":"Dec 22nd 2013, 8:41pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":199066,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"coachhovis","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=10661","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/coachhovis.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"32557"},"938340":{"pb_id":"44418","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"938263","pid":"938340","comment_id":"938340","member_id":"44418","comment":"Foot Locker isn't the only national meet. So if Pickle has a really good NXN, which he kind of did, and some of the guys from South don't fare so well at FL Finals, how would you figure that?","date_added":"Dec 22nd 2013, 10:52pm","nest":1,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"1082747","email_settings":"4294967295","email":"dbind4@aol.com","address":"DougB","gender":"u","member_id":"44418","member_name":"DougB","avatar_location":"av-44418.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":199066,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg","pb_title":"DougB","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=44418","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/DougB.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1082747"},"938025":{"pb_id":"43805","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"938025","comment_id":"938025","member_id":"43805","comment":"It's harder to stay undefeated when there are 3 top 6 runners in your league :)","date_added":"Dec 21st 2013, 8:27pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":199066,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"RunSpokane","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43805","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/RunSpokane.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1073997"},"937839":{"pb_id":"44418","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"937839","comment_id":"937839","member_id":"44418","comment":"

<\/a>Coach BC, on , said:<\/p>

\nDoug, thank you for putting these rankings out there. You went very deep this go round. It's fun to look at and compare my own thoughts.
\n
\nI know that no one will 100% agree with you. It does make for great discussion.
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\n
\nThanks. Merging the two national meets I judged the NXN race to be about 10 seconds faster that Foot Locker. (And part of that "figuring" is that I believe Dressel and Wilmot to be virtually identical given how many times they went back and forth this season). So Wilmot's 15:00 is roughly equal to Dressel's 15:10. There is no way that the only undefeated runner in the country, and Foot Locker champ, isn't going to be No. 1. Between BorderClash and NXN, Tanner lost to four of the five guys ahead of him. While I don't put a ton of stock into BorderClash, it's not meaningless. And the national meet carries more weight than the state meet and regional meet. Keep in mind that it was a very big deal when Tanner beat Joe Hardy at state. And Joe finished fifth at Foot Locker.
\nBut yeah, this list is my opinion. I invite the discussion and welcome the feedback.","date_added":"Dec 21st 2013, 8:36am","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"1082747","email_settings":"4294967295","email":"dbind4@aol.com","address":"DougB","gender":"u","member_id":"44418","member_name":"DougB","avatar_location":"av-44418.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":199066,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg","pb_title":"DougB","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=44418","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/DougB.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1082747"},"937838":{"pb_id":"44418","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"937838","comment_id":"937838","member_id":"44418","comment":"

<\/a>runningwithkids, on , said:<\/p>

\nDougB Thanks for the explanation. My point is less about Reiser, more about Ostberg, who on relative basis is ranked too low. If we move up 1 spot to DeHaven, how do you rank his 17th NXN and 18th FL ahead of Ostberg's 11th FL. Ostberg ran a strong FL race and was in the lead pack of 5 until about the 2 mile mark. Ostberg peaked at the right time and he deserves a higher ranking. He's a junior - watch him in outdoor TF and next fall!
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\n
\nOstberg was impressive at Foot Locker and I think he's in really good company on the list. DeHaven underperformed at both national meets (he won the NXN Heartland and was second at Foot Locker Midwest). Ostberg was under the radar two months ago but has my attention now. Can't wait to see what he does next.","date_added":"Dec 21st 2013, 8:23am","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"1082747","email_settings":"4294967295","email":"dbind4@aol.com","address":"DougB","gender":"u","member_id":"44418","member_name":"DougB","avatar_location":"av-44418.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":199066,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg","pb_title":"DougB","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=44418","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/DougB.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1082747"},"937791":{"pb_id":"9184","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"937791","comment_id":"937791","member_id":"9184","comment":"I agree with Fisher at #1. Wilmot's national championship might have been slightly more impressive, but in lieu of a head to head match-up, "undefeated" has to count for something. It's not like Fisher ducked the competition by choosing Footlocker ... he beat #3 and #4 in the final rankings.
\n
\nDan","date_added":"Dec 21st 2013, 2:36am","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":199066,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"members\/avatar\/3295.jpg","pb_title":"dkap","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=9184","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/dkap.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"10044"},"937763":{"pb_id":"45158","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"937763","comment_id":"937763","member_id":"45158","comment":"Wow Doug, personally I never would've attempted this Herculean attempt, I give you rep points just for attempting this, I am too busy bowing down to your awesomeness that I cannot criticize your rankings (though if I did, it would be that Kai should be #1 by his awesome\/fast\/dominating win at NXN, but I am biased too, although I do feel strongly that Kai be #1, but I digress, very impressive list).","date_added":"Dec 20th 2013, 11:16pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":199066,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"DontStopPre","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=45158","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=45158","pb_wally_id":"1182171"},"937562":{"pb_id":"53656","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"937562","comment_id":"937562","member_id":"53656","comment":"Doug, thank you for putting these rankings out there. You went very deep this go round. It's fun to look at and compare my own thoughts.
\n
\nI know that no one will 100% agree with you. It does make for great discussion.","date_added":"Dec 20th 2013, 6:12pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":199066,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"Coach BC","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=53656","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/Coach-BC.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1346762"},"937539":{"pb_id":"43805","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"937539","comment_id":"937539","member_id":"43805","comment":"Coach bc, Kai's win at nxn would put him in front of Dressel. Besides that, I would agree that using Doug's criteria Tanner should be 2.","date_added":"Dec 20th 2013, 5:35pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":199066,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"RunSpokane","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43805","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/RunSpokane.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1073997"},"937536":{"pb_id":"53656","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"937536","comment_id":"937536","member_id":"53656","comment":"and Dressel would be third with Wilmot fourth.","date_added":"Dec 20th 2013, 5:30pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":199066,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"Coach BC","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=53656","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/Coach-BC.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1346762"},"937534":{"pb_id":"53656","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"937534","comment_id":"937534","member_id":"53656","comment":"Looking at your criteria, Tanner Anderson should be your number 2. He won state (against Dressel and Wilmot). He won NXN NW. Ran the same time as 2nd place NXN (very close finish).
\n
\nDressel and Wilmot both didn't fare well at state. Dressel did take 2nd at FLW, while Wilmot was 3rd at NXNW.","date_added":"Dec 20th 2013, 5:26pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":199066,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"Coach BC","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=53656","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/Coach-BC.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1346762"},"937523":{"pb_id":"53721","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"937523","comment_id":"937523","member_id":"53721","comment":"Something funky with DyeStat final HS XC rankings. Alex Ostberg finishes 11th at Footlocker Nationals and DyeStat ranks him 29th, but Jesse Reiser who placed 33rd at Footlocker Nationals ranks 28th ahead of Ostberg. Ostberg also placed 2nd at New Englands behind Trevor Hopper (also ranked). So in head to head competition in a National Championship meet (to which DyeStat assigns most weight), Ostberg outruns Reiser by 29 seconds and 22 places, but in the final ranking is behind Reiser? Please explain. Thanks.","date_added":"Dec 20th 2013, 4:10pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":199066,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"runningwithkids","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=53721","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/runningwithkids.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1349954"},"937526":{"pb_id":"44418","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"937523","pid":"937526","comment_id":"937526","member_id":"44418","comment":"Reiser also had a fine run at NXN, where he was 13th. Ostberg got some major credit for finishing 11th and placing well higher than Hopper on the list. Based on Reiser's NXN performance alone he'd be a few spots higher on this list but he got dinged a bit for a bad day at Foot Locker.","date_added":"Dec 20th 2013, 4:29pm","nest":1,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"1082747","email_settings":"4294967295","email":"dbind4@aol.com","address":"DougB","gender":"u","member_id":"44418","member_name":"DougB","avatar_location":"av-44418.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":199066,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg","pb_title":"DougB","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=44418","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/DougB.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1082747"},"937529":{"pb_id":"53721","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"937523","pid":"937529","comment_id":"937529","member_id":"53721","comment":"DougB Thanks for the explanation. My point is less about Reiser, more about Ostberg, who on relative basis is ranked too low. If we move up 1 spot to DeHaven, how do you rank his 17th NXN and 18th FL ahead of Ostberg's 11th FL. Ostberg ran a strong FL race and was in the lead pack of 5 until about the 2 mile mark. Ostberg peaked at the right time and he deserves a higher ranking. He's a junior - watch him in outdoor TF and next fall!","date_added":"Dec 20th 2013, 4:59pm","nest":1,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":199066,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"runningwithkids","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=53721","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/runningwithkids.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1349954"},"937518":{"pb_id":"53720","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"937518","comment_id":"937518","member_id":"53720","comment":"How about Rory Linkletter 11th place finish at footlocker west proven as by far the most dominant region, well ahead of 12th place and in the mix the whole time. He may not be a top 50 but deserves a mention","date_added":"Dec 20th 2013, 2:58pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":199066,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"running_herd","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=53720","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/running-herd.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1349953"},"937527":{"pb_id":"44418","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"937518","pid":"937527","comment_id":"937527","member_id":"44418","comment":"I considered Rory and he might have been one of the next 5-10. Two of the guys who beat him at state are ranked 95th and 98th and he didn't have a very good day at NXN SW.","date_added":"Dec 20th 2013, 4:32pm","nest":1,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"1082747","email_settings":"4294967295","email":"dbind4@aol.com","address":"DougB","gender":"u","member_id":"44418","member_name":"DougB","avatar_location":"av-44418.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":199066,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg","pb_title":"DougB","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=44418","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/DougB.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1082747"},"937794":{"pb_id":"53720","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"937518","pid":"937794","comment_id":"937794","member_id":"53720","comment":"Rory was injured all of september and ran on fumes at the state meet, and I believe conditions had a huge part in nike southwest it's easy to get caught and have a bad day in the mud. not to mention Utah is a dominant cross country state.","date_added":"Dec 21st 2013, 3:04am","nest":1,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":199066,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"running_herd","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=53720","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/running-herd.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1349953"}},"last_id":"937518","url":"comments.php?item_type=news&item_id=199066&item_url=profile.php?member_id=10661"}